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It's More Than the Bible and a Church Visit
Published on March 11, 2004 By mittens In Religion
Fore-Warning: As you read this, keep in mind that this is coming from a former Catholic/Christian who has now turned to Atheism.

Over the past 7 months, I've been living with a roommate at the University of Michigan who the school paired me with. And for the most part, we've been great friends the whole time. I've always been supportive of him, giving advice, etc., in fact, I occassionally felt like an older brother to him. From the get-go, he has claimed to be heavily religious, listening to religious music, talking about friends he's met at Church, ranted on and on [a lot] about "good morals" and how "God always has a plan."

About 2 months into school, I noticed a change in him: he became much more irritable, frustrated, swore a lot and condemned his faith and his God. At one point during his "evil period," he went too far saying things like "Fuck God!" and "Where the hell has God ever been for me?" and, at that point, I just lost it, and grabbed him, slammed him against a wall, and told him that even though I don't believe in God, I knew he did, so I told him that part of being a good Christian is staying true to your faith during the good times, to be sure, but also to stay true during the worst of times. I let go of him, and he stormed out in a storm of swearing and damn'ing me to the worst parts of the world, etc. Soon after that, though, I think he came around and saw truth in what I was saying, and eventually got back to "normal." Since that point, however, I believe he felt that I still could "be saved" by God, and had made it his personal mission to "convert me."

Granted his goal of attempting to "convert" me would never happen, as I was born and raised Catholic and lived in a rather religious household. Growing up I was required me to attend pre-church "school" and the occasional youth-group meetings, along with reading the Bible on a daily basis. My reasons to turn Agnostic, and later Atheistic were very well-justified in my mind, and pretty set-in-stone, at least for my foreseeable future, and I have remained that way for a couple years now. I've occasionally thought about maybe attempting to go back to Christianity (though I will never return to Catholicism), simply because it makes certain aspects of life easier to deal with, however those were fleeting thoughts, and I still remain strong in my current beliefs.

The previous paragraph was just some background information on myself though, to indicate that although I am NOT religious in any way, shape or form, I still do know a decent amount of information about Christianity, and especially the Catholic set of beliefs. So, even if I don't believe in God (or most of the other things the Bible preaches about), I was able to answer a lot of questions about Christianity that my roommate may have had. Now, I had just mentioned about one of his "evil periods;" however, little was I to know, that these "evil periods" were going to happen much more frequently: about once or twice a month. I've learned to deal with him when he gets like that, but being that I felt he and I were still good friends, I also did my best ot help. And, to support the main point of this article (which will be discussed in the paragraphs to follow), let it be known that he has NEVER ONCE thanked me for helping him, or apologized for his "evil periods", which he writes off as "part of who he is."

To me, part of being a good Christian is more than just beleiving in God, showing up every now and then at Church and reading the Bible. I was always raised on the belief that part of being a good Christian is more like a lifestyle: you follow/trust in God, you treat others like you would like to be treated, you live a self-sacrificing life, and always put other's feelings over your own (which falls under the self-sacrificing part). My roommate and I got in a major argument over this, he believes that in order to get into heaven, you just have to believe in God and show up to Church. I told him that if he was to follow the Christian way of thinking, then there is a whole lot more work that needs to be done if you wants to get into his Heaven. So I preceded to say that if someone was only mildly religious, but was a total asshole to everyone he/she met, never doing a good thing for anyone other than him/herself, then they could get into heaven. He said "Yes," and I just scoffed at him, and gave up the discussion.

If he was right, then I've definately been right about my views on religion all along, however, 15 years of getting raised in and around the Catholic church tells me otherwise. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to make a religious come-back, but religion is an interesting topic of research for me. Any thoughts?

Comments (Page 2)
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on Mar 11, 2004

Obviously your old roommate was one of the "lost ones".  People who no longer believe in the faith, and only follow the religion.  Sad that it happens, but it's a fact.


 


The worst thing about christianity, and all western religions is that they believe men are born evil and must strive to be forgiven.   This is what spawns the guilt involved.   "Religions" from the east like Buddhism and my own: Taoism, believe that people are born good, and it is their natural tendancy.  It's funny how when you believe that, and just let yourself be you, it's very very easy to be 'good'.

on Mar 11, 2004
Trent, I believe that your friend has something wrong with him, psychologically. I also don't think he has any awareness of true faith. He is just parrotin what he has learned. You on the other hand know a lot more than he does. It is hard being a Christian in one sense. You have to live with the paradox of free will and God's love. Thus you live in an unfair and unjust world. It is easier to believe that it is an accident, then you don't have to defend God, because there isn't any. However, I have chosen to believe in God, because I can't accept that beauty and love would be in an accidental universe and I have experienced both in abundance.

I am sorry guys that I am unwilling to argue--that is not my style. My proof is my lifestyle and my evidence is what God has done for me.
on Mar 11, 2004
I didn't know you were a follower of Tao, Jeremy....interesting, very interesting....
on Mar 11, 2004
I just can’t imagine a loving God taking a decent, hardworking, loving person and casting them into torment because they do not believe EXACTLY what the book says.


Neither can any person with a brain and a heart, but millions of Christians believe exactly this.
on Mar 11, 2004
An excellent summary of all that is horrible, wrong, and demented about the Christian religion.


What is great is tho it may look like you are judging me by what you said Bulbous, it don't matter

JeremyG
The worst thing about christianity, and all western religions is that they believe men are born evil and must strive to be forgiven.


Interesting. I think I hear what you are saying, and this is a misconception by many Christians even, and so it does "spawn guilt" as you put it. The interesting part is that nowhere in the Word does it say that we have to 'strive to be forgiven' or to live under any sort of burden. My mistake it does say that, or something to that effect, in the Old Testament and in the books of the law. But of course Christianity does not follow the Old Testaments.
on Mar 12, 2004
The above post was not a complete stance on what is the final decision in my life about God. Those are theories and questions that have basically plagued me since I started questioning and studying my religion.

I appreciate Syntacs response because he did make me stop and think a little more about the ideas I had. I also had a long talk with a friend that was really into spirituality not a certain type of religion just very spiritual and close to God. I really believe that after talking to this friend I am right about forgiveness. God will see right through me if I am just doing it just to do it and get into heaven, I think he will weigh my sincerity and judge then. But I also do not believe there is a Hell, what I believe happens to those who are destined for 'hell' is that they are absorbed by God, cleansed of impurity and transformed into the being of light that he imagined that person to be. The darkness in that person is then discarded but their soul is in heaven with everyone else.

Syntacs I see your argument for free will but being a programmer and a logical person I like to strip away free will and make it obey or make a uniform environment where nothing goes wrong. Now if you want to start analyzing that and saying that it is impossible because there will always be 'bugs' in the code, then would you infer that God the great PROGRAMMER couldn't compile the perfect program? If we are from God, the we ourselves are God on a certain level right? Hehehe, just giving a few different ways of looking at the subject.

For anyone who reads this post, do not take anything someone tells you as truth, research it and make a decision based on facts that you have found. As for the rest well theories aren't contradictions unless the proof is there.
on Mar 12, 2004
But of course Christianity does not follow the Old Testaments.


So why is it part of the Christian Bible?
on Mar 12, 2004
Hmm. It seems that a lot of people want to judge God. When I go to sleep at night in a warm bed, I thank God. When, I wake safely in the morning, I thank God. When, I stand up and walk to the refrigerator, I thank God that I can walk. When, I walk out the front door and look at the skies and birds, I thank God. The fact that I can do all these things is truly a blessing. Many people cannot do these things.

Do I think god is wrong for not giving me a lot of money? No, I do not. I think he is probably right.

Do I think god is wrong for not striking down all the evil in the world? Well, if he did, I guarantee you that no one would be left in this world.

Now, there is such a thing as the unpardonable sin. So, I don't believe that someone can kill, rape and do all these ghastly things and still get to heaven.

Yes, I am a Christian. I don't curse God. Nor, will I judge those that do. I leave that in God's hands.

Every bad thing that happens to me is nothing more than a trial. I stay strong in my faith because in the end it will be all that I have. I do good works, not to get into heaven, but because of my belief in God.

No one even needs to know my faith. When I help someone, I believe that they are touched by gods spirit. All beauty in this world is gods doing. All evil in this world is man's doing.

When, I pick up trash in the street, it is to keep gods world beautiful. When, I open a door for a lady, it is my way of giving respect to the women that he created for me.

And yes, I was born again. I am your "born again" Christian type. Am I proud? Nope. I am sad. It saddens me to think that God had to give his only begotten son to be killed by us to show his love for us.

What more do we need? We have a beautiful world. We have beautiful women. We have a god that loves us in spite of all the evil that we have done to him. Yes, to him. Everytime we curse him. Everytime we do anything evil against his commandments. Why doesn't he just strike us all down? Maybe because somehow, someway, that I could never understand, nor will I even try, he has faith in us, his children. It is clear that he does have faith in us. Why? It is clear that God loves his children. We are all his children. That is one thing that we all understand. It is the love for our children. So, as long as we love our children, maybe there is hope. And, maybe someday, we will all understand that we are family.
on Mar 12, 2004
So why is it part of the Christian Bible?


Why not?
on Mar 12, 2004
Why not?


O...kay.
on Mar 12, 2004
BulbousHead-- Im kidding of course, I don't mean to mock your question. Here's the thing, I don't know for sure why. I could give you some good reasons but that's all they would be. Im obvously not a scholar, I hardly know anything about the bible, I've been a Christian for a few years of my short life. Most Christians you talk to (most) are still human so when you question them they will do their best to answer you, just as anybody would do on any subject. But only a few talk from a standpoint of knowledge. Especially if it is a heated discussion and emotions are involved, who wants to admit that they don't know? I do, cause I don't want to give you something untrue.

If something really does make a difference to you, I am willing to look into it, but for some reason Im guessing that nobody really cares
on Mar 12, 2004
That's fine, but then on what do you base your faith and your religion? On a book you admittedly don't even understand? Or have you not read it yet?
on Mar 12, 2004
I actually have and do read it. But when I hardly could desipher The Catcher in the Rye in 8th grade... do you really think I am going to tell you I understand it? I have literally hundreds of questions foating in my head that I have not had the chance to or the courage to ask. I do understand some parts of it, that is about all I can admit.
on Mar 12, 2004
do you really think I am going to tell you I understand it?


So you've pledged your faith and the fate of your soul to the wisdom of this book, but you don't understand it. At least you didn't make such a commitment to The Catcher in the Rye.
on Mar 12, 2004
So you've pledged your faith and the fate of your soul to the wisdom of this book, but you don't understand it. At least you didn't make such a commitment to The Catcher in the Rye.


Yes it's a good thing ain't it. I did admit to understanding some of it, however. If you ever do run across a person who says they understand it all, you know one of two things that person is a liar, and they know it; or two, that person is a liar and they don't know it
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